Many times, when we need an explanation regarding something that we do not know (how many times it has happened to us, in any area ...) we ask for help and someone, with their best intention, tries to help us and clarify the concepts but, despite the good intention of the that helps us, simply ... We do not understand. It is so. We want it, but we cannot understand (for whatever reason) what they are trying to explain to us.
When I got tired of using the liveCD of Kubuntu and I decided to install that Linux distribution, but while still using Windows of course, I ran into two serious problems:
* I had to install the distro and not touch the Windows installation;
* to install the distro ... I had to partition the hard drive.
And what worried me the most, even more than losing personal data in Windows, was the issue of partitioning.
Asking at work, one of my colleagues who used Debian He clarified the partitioning issue a bit (he explained that the liveCD installer was going to "suggest" a partition to me, but that I could edit it and give it the size I wanted). To all this, I thought "Who better than Kubuntu himself will know what is best for him and how much disk space he needs, it is a good option ..."
When I got home, I started to install Kubuntu, and when the moment of truth arrived ... I realized that I did not understand anything. I did not know what was going to happen to my files, how to modify the partitions, what format they were going to apply to them, etc.
The next day, I put my pride in my pocket, I went and sat down with my partner, and I said “everything was perfect, what you explained to me yesterday, but to tell you the truth… I didn't understand anything. Explain to me easier so I'm not wrong«. And I returned home with a perfect explanatory drawing of how the partition scheme that I would have left should look like, an estimated size of each one, the format they should have to work, etc. That piece of paper, with a simple drawing of six or seven lines (which I still have) had given me the security I needed. It was the perfect summary of what had already been explained to me, but that I had understood when it was explained to me low level.
When we migrate to Linux after growing up with Windows, the passage becomes a bit difficult, and we need a lot of the very broad Linux terminology to be temporarily put aside and, with peritas and manzanitas, explain us what the hell are they talking about.
The problem is that, in my opinion, ordering pears and apples from someone who knows Linux is not that easy.
To anyone who has had a problem with Linux (of the level-complexity that is) and has gone out to look for information on the web, find several levels of answers:
* difficult level;
* intermediate level;
* in basic Romanian;
* in some dead language in which the only thing that is understood is "kernel". The explanations in Romanian are probably simplified versions of these explanations;
* intermediate-easy level.
They can tell me vaguely, windowser or whatever you want, but as long as it takes me three times as long, I prefer the intermediate or easy answers. I want the pears and apples, and I search for them until I find them.
The problem is that there are few such answers. I can't explain why, if in this very blog it has been perfectly demonstrated that there are many Linux friends hanging around the web wanting to help and explain. Maybe it's because there is a similar amount of Anti Windist Linuxers.
Let's not lower the level, let's get more people to buy it. If we want Free Software to reach everyone, let's make it available to everyone. Explaining the basic concepts clearly, we will advance over the more complex ones with a firmer foundation.
Today I leave you my pear and my apple about two basic concepts to take into account when we are going to install a Linux distribution, in case someone wants to reinforce them or acquire them :) (with very simple explanatory drawings).
What is a Disk Partition? on Wikipedia
What is Disk Defragment? on Wikipedia
I await your comments, I would love to know if you are leaving pears and apples, or if you speak Romanian: D A huge greeting and see you next time!
34 comments, leave yours
Going down to the Windows language to explain something is not "lowering the level", but rather explaining something based on something that almost 100% of the people have surely used, then it becomes understandable.
Do you really think that Microsoft's answers to your problems are understandable? In forums the most common answers (because that's the way the questions are) refer to "How to crack this or that program" (and even then the methods are sometimes difficult).
Otherwise we find the common Windows problems to which Microsoft answers "reinstall" or "look for the patch" (for which if you do not have an original windows you will not be able to update, due to lack of the WGA), and that leads to it's not just Linux users who 'complicate' it, but also from the other side.
To this is added that the custom of a Windows user is "to fix it / make another one" and they are not looking much on the webs (I say this from experience in my environment).
"To this is added that the custom of a Windows user is" to fix it / make another "and they are not looking much on the webs (I say this from experience in my environment)." Not so… at least in my environment. It is or is a stereotypical urban legend ...
What a good post, last week I did the same, partition the disk, to install kubuntu (coincidence?), Now I'm using it, but since I didn't read anything about it. barely what I knew from how much I read a long time ago .. I created the swap partition, and a 3 gig ext3, but after updating and installing some necessary programs for me. I already ran out of disk space :(
this week I'm going to repeat the whole process, but now I'm going to give it more space for kubuntu.
There really are ways to explain things, in Christian, for everyone, however, there is a mania of some to make the easiest thing incomprehensible, reasons? Try to show that you have knowledge and that you are more than the rest. Nonsense.
I usually make this mistake, but when I hear that they tell me "oh that was it, mmm yes it must be" I remember that my friends are starting with linux and I try to talk to them more simply, hehe, windows style, without being an expert but I manage.
Perhaps the other thing apart from the complexity of the documentation and explanations found on the web, is that it is in English in its majority and for many that is an insurmountable barrier, if they do not find it in Spanish it is as if it does not exist.
I agree with N @ ty that the fact that it is available to everyone is not to lower the level, if we want more people to use it, we have to talk to them in a way that they understand, nobody was born knowing.
I have a bag of pears and apples, and a few bricks for the fundamentalists, hehe.
Effectiveness vs Ease
Have you ever read any of those Windows manuals to configure a cable for a cell phone? There are more than 8 pages in PDF with one image after another.
Making the analogy, in Unix-based systems it would be done in little more than 5 lines of code.
Now, why not enter to do an intermission, something simple but effective?
Hehe, that's why I like ubntu, let's not complicate people with looking for drivers from the internet, downloading them, checking them with the antivirus, double click, click, click, click, restart. Neither sudo apt-get install "nvidia-drivers" dpkg-reconfigure, I don't know how much else ...
Just one click away from having the controller ... so with everything ... It's simple ... KISS Methodology. Without losing the possibility of doing it in the most effective way .. (with console)
kernel_panic, ancestral elf, who spoke the very sons of Ilúvatar? The elf from the Noldor? Or the common one that is spoken in the forests of Middle Earth? do not understand.
It depends, I have seen lots of users who do not know how to do anything alone. But that happens especially with users who do not use their PC on a daily basis or who do not use the Internet except for what is strictly necessary. The others are able to search for themselves, unless they have a "computer geek" two blocks away who comes to the house for free in exchange for tea and biscuits.
But now moving on to the issue that brings us together, I think linuxers have improved the level, they are landing their knowledge and you don't see what was said a lot before about closed communities full of LAWs, at least in the communities that are dedicated to distros popular. But in the so-called LUGs or the communities of the "distros for men" it is more complex, they no longer explain with pears and apples.
I see that although there are various opinions and experiences, most are similar to mine.
For my part, I have been called "the computer pringao" (as ffuentes calls him) infinite times or "the idiot who knows about those things" as they once called me. And what I do is explain things from the more or less advanced to "let's see the baby .." (going through the pears and apples), and not only with linux (system in which I am still a new user) but in computer science in general
I am one of a kind. Agree with you nacho, except for something. I believe that people did not adapt to Windows, but Win was created to adapt and reach as many people as possible. And that is achieved with simplicity, ease, etc. Now that people are already addicted at this point is something else. If or if one always in any field seeks change.
I completely agree. Getting users of Windows or other operating systems to migrate to any of the Linux distributions is an odyssey. Sometimes because we confuse the explanations, the explanation is very technical, we lack pedagogy, etc. But I think one factor that almost prevented some friends and myself from migrating to Linux was the Linux pigs. Those antisocials who pretend to promote the use of Linux, but always attack anyone who wants to try to learn something about Linux and abound in forums, irc chats, etc. The worst thing of all is that people are afraid of it, they allow themselves to be insulted and the other members of the choir list, etc. do not do anything I recommend you read this simple text about them http://cl4551f13d.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/como-reconocer-a-un-linuxcerdo/
Well ... it depends on how you want to give the answer, at least seen from the perspective of the help ...
I have managed to get many friends to switch to Linux (even use it as the only OS: D) and for each of them there is a different answer to the same question.
I say this because by knowing each person you are helping, one can know what level of understanding they have about it ... I really like to start the explanations in some derivation of ancient elvish (as far as possible: I am not a guru) and if I see who have faces that do not understand or potato we gradually go to pears and apples as esty says.
The good thing about doing it like this is that you not only learn how to do things, but how they work.
It is true, for a windowser making the transition, pears and apples are the best, but when you get the hang of it (and if you like it) you will prefer dead language explanations.
Another thing that is certain of many (most, but not all) windowsers is something that I am denying, perhaps because of their experience (his glory ... in this world there are all kinds of people), which is the philosophy «that someone else do it ", with the exception of those who really put into the computer recesses, all the windowsers want, as I saw in some blog," a giant button that says JUANKEAR and that when pressing it juankee "
Of course, it's easier for them to do it to you ...
And that is something that I have not seen (until now) in any linux user ... until now everyone is interested in learning how things are done and with the exception of the women I know who use it (it is not sexism, I only refer to people I know!) all want to know how it works.
The last thing, I am, capable and it is a little late, but you did not try the wubi? It is an installer for ubuntu on windows that installs the (X, K) Ubuntu on the disk, without deleting the windows, without making any partition or anything, but a file that would be the file system / in linux, it is the easiest to do although it is not the most effective (defragment in windows after doing it). As of Ubuntu 8.10 (I think, capable and before) it already comes by default on the CD so when you insert it into the drive or the CD is opened, the option to install it from Windows should appear.
Well N @ ty, also go through that, and I think all Linux users in general.
I really understand you, there are linux-users of these that do not have a desktop, that use window managers, that they really know, but that for knowing they give you some explanations that I do not know if Linuz Torvalds himself understands them.
If you keep messing around with linux, you will see the day come when many explanations that today seem difficult to you will seem so simple and perhaps even silly, why? because by then you're going to have a better idea of how linux works.
Above they wrote linuxcerdos haha, I already lost count of the times I read in forums, especially ubuntu, where they asked what the terminal was and how it opened in ubuntu.
Someone tell me what to name them.
I think it is generalized. Without going any further, I am still looking for an ebook created by some candid soul to start learning Python in Spanish, even in old Spanish if necessary: S
The ones I have found ... I think it was more like a classical orc, at least it sounded very bad for an elvish ...
And about the pears and apples… yes, okay. I have been unlucky anyway, but I have come across a lot of people who say to you when you start "I have no idea about computing, I don't know what you're telling me" and you just told them to put the CD in the reader and restart ...
So the truth ... yes, there is everything. I had to look through a gazillion forums for pears, apples and grapes to know how the hell to configure the ATI driver (Dapper, to be exact xD).
The difference that ubuntu makes with the rest of the distros may be that, that the community is really there, for EVERYTHING.
I try to be clear ... but hey, it's like everything. If they only use the PC to view photos and facebook ... well, I am lazy to explain how it is.
There are some who have seen my PC (Menus awn, full compiz, transparencies, burning windows ...) and they tell you to put linux on them (Especially that of xD viruses) but one thinks «You have sent the PC to be formatted by You have no idea ... Do you think that all this is configured by itself? Do you think everything I have came in my gutsy pack? Step uncle, keep in mind that you are doing very well ».
It's what I said in another post ... explaining is very good ... when they understand you. When even the word apple, which has 3 syllables, scares them, those people don't deserve anything better than MS.
Sorry if it sounds harsh, but I don't waste my breath on users who don't want to learn ANYTHING.
Ubuntu can be used without knowing, yes, but I'm not the one with the "pringao-howto" nor do I want to explain why windows programs do not suck in linux "so why yes". Not many other things.
Simply because I work repairing stupid mistakes in the maintenance of a hard rock and one gets fed up with nonsense. If they do not know that a coffee maker does not work if it is not plugged in (True, I am not kidding) at least explain to them how to configure their hotmail account so that they can take the mail without being on the web, for example.
Maybe there are not as many linux pigs as it seems, but many of them are burned pringaos.
(Although that does not mean that many are true)
We go back to another post: Windows has created the school of «someone else will do it» «everything is simple, and if something fails you format» and «there is nothing better».
You can fight against that, but in the end you also get tired and decide that they keep breaking their horns with win while you are happy with linux.
I look forward to the messages from "Troll!" and "LAW!" XD
PS: esty, you are a rarity, seriously = yes
I agree 100x percent with nacho in that regard, we are going to be clear about something if a user wants to migrate from windows and get to this side of the river which is linux, it is because something is in his head that tells him that he is tired of something routine or protocol that can be passed, antivirus, defragment, format, etc ,,,
If you simply take the leap because you want to see decorated windows and effects on your desktop
It is a really sad and dangerous jump because you will end up with a sprained and depressed ankle
Because for the simple answer that to have a system in optimal conditions, either windows, linux or mac, we must dedicate ourselves a little more than just watching videos on YouTube, chat or watch the facebok and call the technician or the neighbor who knows something more than you. to repair your machine in exchange for a soda and some cookies
and he will give you an explanation so that he will give it to you with pears or apples, you are not interested one bit
to understand what they tell you then it is not worth crossing the river
Although it sounds harsh but think about it as this says there are many people addicted by the lack of awareness they see the internet as a fashion example of many that, like compulsive shoppers, are signing up for how much page appears in how much garbage they find on the internet if it goes out The hi5 I register and under all the applications that I have ah it is already out of fashion then my space, that already what is cool is the facebok we go there, those same people are the ones who forward the famous mail of they are going to close hotmail, and Bill Gates is giving away his fortune
Those same people are the ones who call every so often to the one who knows a little more why I won't open the mail or because they get a window that says you are visitor number 99999
It is not just about explaining to people that Linux is beautiful and easy, it is about seeing what they want and what they want it for and making them understand that Linux is not a fad
And that any operating system like this tell you that it is the most powerful, the most stable, it needs knowledge and some time
and the most important thing that you cannot treat an operating system as you treat the one you have installed
It is also about making them understand that if one who more or less knows something else, along the way has misconfigured the x, he has broken packages and dependencies that have taken programmers days, weeks and months to build and compile.
and many of us have sweated and stayed up when something goes wrong with our system until we stopped sleeping like a mother stays up for a sick child
make them understand that the road will be green and lush for them because they will leave behind what previously caused them headaches in their previous system and they will have a community willing to help any problems that arise but that despite everything they have to work hard and learn to understand it and deal with some things too
so that in the future they too can help how the community helped them
I think that is the cleanest ripe pear that they can offer you
I hope I don't bother someone with my comment.
once again congratulations for this excellent page :) of which I am addicted
True esty, there the LAW xD side came out, it is true that when windows started, the grandfather of the current linux was a rather dodgy console = s
But that does not mean that nowadays the Windows standards have been accepted, when the truth is that as a system it is completely opaque to the user (Without going any further, the screen that warns you that C: can be dangerous xD) and has things that for a linux user are quite rare, such as having to install drivers (All) when all the hardware is made for windows.
I do not know, I continue in mine, you have to distinguish between owners of your system, and simple users.
I think that is the key.
For me and many, knowing how something works is interesting, that is why I am passionate about computing, there is always something new. For others, as long as it works, it is already worth it.
PS: Today the general network that works with windows has fallen, what a pleasure to tell the director that "I'm sorry, I don't know anything about windows, I use linux, call Orlando to see what they say" xD
So that later they say about the dark side of the force, the LAW side of computing is even stronger xD
Esty, do not be angry, but I repeat "from experience of my environment" the Windows users here (and when I say here I mean Argentina) are such what I said. They want to "do everything to them."
It is true that you have to know how to explain things. I know this because I was a computer science teacher for 3 years, and I have learned to explain things (at least when it comes to something that I know, like computer science). Even so, one encounters the first fear of the human being: «the unknown», and the first thing they tend to do is to reject it for no reason (be it a new operating system, a different msn or an answer to «because it jumps the window that I have a virus »)
It's normal ... I've gotten used to it. Even so, it is a truth that will not change for now ... and it is that if they get used to the ease of «next ... next..next ... finish» obviously than explaining that "the micro cooler has EARTH" or explaining that the machine is slow because they put all the "bug" they found on the internet, it becomes a thousand times more difficult.
Aaaaa… nacho gave me the razooon, he gave me the razooon, lerolerooooo !!!!!
hardstone ... I am also from Argentina. I do not get angry, I just call your attention that you do not generalize. It all depends on the niche you are in. If you were teaching programming in a nursing home, you would generalize that all programming students are relentos. And if I taught computer science in the comatose room of a hospital, I would generalize by saying that when I want to teach, nobody gives me a ball. That's what I'm going to do. Do not close yourself in the brief child where you are, the world is wide and turning around Windows is not that difficult, that is a legend.
And as I told nacho, one did not get used to the «next next next finish», but rather the other way around, the world of computing was modeled on what users want. If an OS does not do what I want, or does not make it easy for me, it is unlikely that it interests me.
Rather than be denying all that, I think Jorge that yours is the most practical.
You had to remove the charm from my victory ...
Hello, if I tell you the truth, I am against partitions and especially when they are done between linux and win2, they end up giving problems, the best thing is a hard disk for win2 and another for linux
@Jorge: It is the most sensible thing I have read from the last 20 comments.
The only thing I know is that it owes its name to the Monthy ... some capos the guys. They named Pyton and Spam.
mmmm my experience with 2 partitions or disks, is that in the end you only use one. Generally, if you use linux and windows it is for games, you end up stopping playing, and if you use windows, and you are trying linux, you end up going to windows at the first alarm signal that you do not understand.
I had to put only one partition if I wanted to switch to Linux at all, without temptations to go easy ...
and another thing: esty, I said «at the beginning, when I left windows, not after 98 that there were already graphical interfaces in linux»: P
xD I would not say so much as to remove charm, everything else, specify a little;)
by the way, if anyone knows of a page where python is explained for non-Romanians, let him know, please, the computer science academies of Spain think that python is an insult or something like that = s
How useful is wikipedia, am I not? XD
One thing that does not agree with this is the following, windows were not created to adapt ... because it does not do it at the speed it should ...
Microsoft is a company, they must offer a product to a clientele, they have an idea of what that clientele is and prepare a product based on it.
Now what if you are not from the group that Microsoft considers to be its end user? These f * did * because at least you will have to wait 4 years until another version comes out, which is usually the most of the same thing (that one, the one that starts with m xD).
The huge advantage of linux is that there is one for everyone, it is like love, it is only a matter of time until you find the right distro
Esty… when I refer to the "generality" of people I am not referring to your examples of a geratic or a hospital. I've come across older people who understand MORE than a 10-year-old kid who perfectly understands how to get infinite life and weapons in Counter Strike, but who doesn't know how to underline a word in Word (for example).
However, I try to explain to people of all ages, people who "give it their heads", and yet they resort to "do it yourself." I repeat, I speak from the experience of having lived 5 years explaining to many people.
Not to mention, that even with each distro, you can put your hand on it until you leave it exactly how you want ... without any problem and of course, in a totally legal way
kernel_pamic, so those who use linux are the minority ?. You can't please everyone,: D.
And we must accept that between win 98 and XP there was a great great but great improvement. Obviously between xp and vista no.
Can I leave a distro the way I want it? And how would I do that? Putting my hand in the code? ... well ... then it's not for me.
hardstone, I repeat, I do not think it is the common Windows user, but hey, we fall into a space of belief by our own experience, I suppose we are in different environments.
For now, those of us who use Linux are the minority, but for now ...
You're right, you can't make everyone happy, but how is it easier to make them happy? Offering them a set menu of 4 sandwiches or giving you the ingredients so that each one can prepare their own to their liking, capable and you like it with mayonnaise, but not me, and it is not fair that I have to eat one with mayonnaise just because You like it as well as it is not fair that you have to eat one without mayonnaise just because I don't.
Of course you can leave a distro as you want, and for many things you do not have to touch the code, in something like 3 years using linux the only times I have had to do something "dark" have been when
a) I installed the driver of my video card for the first time, at that time it was by terminal, but a couple of months later I saw that it could be done through a much easier graphical interface
b) I started to invent with the configuration of the graphical server, so I played a lot with that between damaging it and accommodating it
c) When I recompiled the kernel according to my machine: p but that was for pure pleasure (although I did reduce the boot times from 32 seconds originally to 16)
d) Something that I had to compile because there was no package to install it easily
Maybe some other one escapes me, but on none of those occasions have I had to do something more typical of the matrix than of a common user + 1
What would you like in a distro ?, For example, let's see if any of us who participated in this discussion can tell you how to do it in a simple way (in terms of pears and apples :))
Interesting column, especially me, that the truth gives me terror to install linux and get into the matter, I think that in that sense the insertion is super complex and unclear for an advanced average user.
I agree with you on something, the insertion for an average / advanced user is a bit more cumbersome than for a common user ...
One comes from the comfortable windows with a certain way of doing things, a way in which one has become proficient over time, and suddenly one falls into a completely unknown place, where the previous rules do not apply, one says «that is this????" and then he abandons it because he says "what a mess, that can't do such a thing"
On the other hand, Pepe Peras, as he has no idea of anything, is only looking for something that resembles the "mesenller" and something that lets him put music on the aipop and that's it. Pepe Peras has an open mind because (at least as far as linux is concerned) he is a virgin mind, but yes, Mr. Peras has to want to learn (nothing complicated, I think giving him 3 clicks on Applications-> Internet-> Emesene anyone can do it)
Depending on the distribution, some may be more intuitive or easier to work with than others, I remember that when I started I chose Suse because it had a control panel (Yast) more or less like the one for windows, and the other distros not, today I don't It hurts not to have the Yast and happily I don't use Suse.
In a similar line is the Drakeconf, mandriva, it is also very useful and easy to use.
If you want to try Linux, you don't have to install it (of course, it depends on which distro), in fact, the one I'm running right now I do from a pendrive because this computer is not mine and it has Windows Vista installed (you know… Linux starts faster from the pendrive than the view from the hard disk and by a wide margin!).
My recommendation would be that you look for a distro that catches your attention and you try it either with a Live CD or a pendrive (you can help with the UNetBootIn) and so you will grab the thread at the rhythm that is most comfortable for you and until you find the one. distribution that best suits your taste and way of working.
I hope this has been useful to you and that you try (and find!) The ideal distribution for you
By the way, Esty, you owe me the answer to the question about what would you like in a distro !! XD
Greetings. I want to tell you my story. I've been watching and reading Linux stuff for almost two years now. I understand little, although sometimes, a charitable soul, reduces the distances and counting some things in a simple way helps a lot. I decided, with my little computer and programming knowledge, to install Ubuntu 8.10. The first two installations were an unprecedented disaster, everything started very well, in the end it crashed and it was finished! Two months ago I mercilessly reset the computer and left an XP partition and Ubuntu on the other. Everything was going very well until, a week ago, it crashed again, now Ubuntu doesn't even open and it tells me that it doesn't recognize the graphics card and I don't know what else because I don't know English.
Everything I've seen so far about Ubuntu seems solid, well thought out and functional to me. I'm not giving up and will install it again.
But what I do want is to leave you some novice reflections. One of the great problems that we need to study here and there is the complexity of the indications. This coupled with the fact that in many communities, in this case of Ubuntu, it is usually very bad character with beginners. In fact, I solve my doubts by reading in thousands of places until I find a place where I understand what is being said. I have not participated in any forum because they are quite intimidating. I have not yet managed to get my Ubuntu to update properly and I have not been able to know why, it does not matter, I will find it.
Yes, I can tell you that this surprises me: Ubuntu's motto is: Software for human beings and it turns out that in the Communities those who try to approach this operating system are treated quite badly. That's why the apple and pear principle seems like a great idea to me.
Thanks for your attention.